tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5591297260116621731.post5205021698059983275..comments2024-03-09T22:40:48.096+01:00Comments on Toolerable: Learning a LanguageBrian Evehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04252174035715635674noreply@blogger.comBlogger25125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5591297260116621731.post-37031146385512378652016-12-12T18:41:12.512+01:002016-12-12T18:41:12.512+01:00Thank you for the great story Brian. My experienc...Thank you for the great story Brian. My experience with Spanish is similar to yours with German. For the last 10.5 years, I've worked in a machine shop with a lot of Hispanics who are naturely fluent in Spanish. I've made several attempts over the years to learn Spanish, and they have been most helpful and supportive, but I can't seem to get over the hump. The biggest problem is my brain processing what they say. I hear slower than they speak. At any though, your experience is encouraging to me. Cuida de mi amigo.<br />CharlieAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5591297260116621731.post-33647300156242040562016-12-04T13:12:25.336+01:002016-12-04T13:12:25.336+01:00I somehow missed that post in my travels, so Im la...I somehow missed that post in my travels, so Im late to the party...<br />I am French Canadian, we did learn English in school but somehow all i could say when i graduated was Do you like cheese... (dont ask me why , i dont know :-)<br />Being interested in electronics as a young teenager, i quickly realised that most available mags were American (Popular Electronics, Radio-Electronics) so i learned a lot that way. When i was young i was in the Army Cadets, and on my first summer camp outside Quebec , in Banff Alberta, i realised that I could get by in English.<br />After high school, my first job was in a Radio-TV shop in Montreal where my shop foreman was American. He was a draft dodger, that like to say : He was posted to Canada during the Vietnam war :-)<br />A few years later, when i joined our military, we had to learned English in order to progress in technical schools. Most of my friends went to English school, i was deemed good enough to skip that part. It really annoyed me down the road since i never had the chance to really learn the language properly. It would come to haunt me, was told often i make the same mistakes over and over. Every time i asked to go on a course so I could learn, they said, you dont need it, you are bilangual....grrr<br />I finally managed to get myself loaded on a small course on base, and for the first time of my life finally understood why i thought some of my boses were idiots, but were not :-) the sentence that brought it home for me was : After coming around the bend of the road, the church was seen. You had to correct the sentence so it was right. To me there was nothing wrong with it, made sense to me, BUT oh no, you dont know if its the church or you coming around the road... Uhh, im pretty sure it was me and not the church, i suppose i could have been on a flat truck being moved but .... the odds are slim so it was clear to me :-)<br />The correct way was to changed it to : after coming around the bend of the road, the church was seen.. now there is no confusion...really???<br />So what i learned from that was English is a very technical language, which has no room for confusion...<br />In French we delight with playing with the words but no one get confused....well if you understand the context :-) <br />Learning a foreign language is also about learning the customs and idiosyncrasies of the people.<br /><br />Bob, about to leave on yet Another trip<br /><br />Valley Woodworkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07322487171914484954noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5591297260116621731.post-14930662184436549542016-11-28T23:11:22.442+01:002016-11-28T23:11:22.442+01:00Great to hear from the Frau. I haven't forgott...Great to hear from the Frau. I haven't forgotten your invitation, and am glad it's still extended, though my 2017 vacation time is booked solid with (I need a cool nickname for my wife)'s nomadic demands (+HandWorks)Jeremyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17028867150859768771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5591297260116621731.post-42918935858185564232016-11-22T00:43:50.410+01:002016-11-22T00:43:50.410+01:00If we have the oportunity it will be a great meeti...If we have the oportunity it will be a great meeting, it's for sure. Thanks.<br /><br />I'm in gratitude with nice people like you, who don't have shame of share its knowledge with the rest of us, so thanks again.<br /><br />--Óscarhumanicnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5591297260116621731.post-16927835711411941322016-11-22T00:33:08.121+01:002016-11-22T00:33:08.121+01:00Hola Brian,
You can read this talented guys in na...Hola Brian,<br /><br />You can read this talented guys in native spanish:<br /><br />* Lorenzo García: http://lacasarota.com/blog/<br />* Israel Martín: https://lacabraenlaescalera.wordpress.com/<br />* Julio Alonso: https://muebleshayabusa.wordpress.com/<br /><br />I hope this helps,<br /><br />--Óscarhumanicnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5591297260116621731.post-90195751337538559632016-11-21T19:59:28.649+01:002016-11-21T19:59:28.649+01:00¡Hola Óscar!
Thanks so much for the nice note. Th...¡Hola Óscar!<br /><br />Thanks so much for the nice note. The Frau instantly stole my iPad so she could read your Spanish for practice!<br /><br />Thanks for the video. Here in Alicante you can hear Valenciano, which I'm told is a dialect of Catalonian.<br /><br />I was recently reflecting on what a rich, diverse community of woodworkers we have in Europe. I look forward to finding more out about Spanish woodworking.<br /><br />Let me know if you happen to travel to my area, it would be great to grab a beer!<br /><br />¡Chao!Brian Evehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04252174035715635674noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5591297260116621731.post-91704492631988398262016-11-21T19:33:30.213+01:002016-11-21T19:33:30.213+01:00Hola Brian,
I read your posts regularly, so we ar...Hola Brian,<br /><br />I read your posts regularly, so we are some kind of old neighbors ;-)<br /><br />I'm a catalan (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMp1LcJLTmU) guy, from Girona, a province of Spain. Here, in Catalonia, we are bilingual and we speak our mother tongue, the catalan, and of course, spanish or castellano. That is how we name the spanish tonge of the State vs spanish tonge from Argentina for example.<br /><br />In my study days of english language I was not very well. Foreign tongues were very dificult to me. But as a computer programmer I needed to read a lot of english documentation and I'm now able to read philosphy books with the Shakespeare tongue. At same time, even today, my english writting is very bad, and from since five years ago I was not able to follow any disertation on taht tongue. <br /><br />This fact changed dramatically when I became follower of Paul Sellers courses. My interest on woodworking was the click I needed to follow the conversations so here I'm listening Walter Lewin courses of phisics on MIT or Allan Watts's thoughts about existence in his pure english tongue. In resume, following your passions may be the best and lovely tool to learn a foreing tongue.<br /><br />In Catalonia we have find some kind of progress expanding our tongue with new wellcome inhabitants. We call it "inmersión linguística", some kind of "learning by doing" method, exactly the same what like learning woodworking.<br /><br />So here I'm. If I can help you on something don't hesitate to contact me, and how yourself said, remember, don't allow fear to prevent you from trying. <br /><br />All the best,<br /><br />--Óscar (ovr at zentinex.com)<br /><br />---<br /><br />For your spanish records:<br /><br />Hola Brian,<br /><br />Leo tus artículos con cierta regularidad, así que en cierto modo somos viejos conocidos ;-)<br /><br />Soy catalán (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMp1LcJLTmU), de Girona, una província de España. Aquí, en Catalunya, somos bilingües y hablamos nuestra lengua materna, el catalán y, por supuesto, el español o castellano. Así es como denominamos la lengua oficial del Estado, diferenciándola del español de Argentina, por ejemplo.<br /><br />En mis días en la escuela estudiando inglés yo no era muy bueno. Las lenguas extrangeras siempre me han resultado difíciles. Pero como programador de ordenadores necesitaba leer un montón de documentación en inglés y ahora incluso soy capaz de leer libros de filosofía en la lengua de Shakespeare. Al mismo tiempo, incluso hoy en día, mi escritura en inglés es muy mala y hasta hace cinco años era incapaz de seguir disertación alguna en esta lengua.<br /><br />Esto cambió dramaticamente cuando me convertí en seguidor de los cursos de Paul Sellers. Mi interés por la carpintería tradicional fue el "click" que necesitaba para seguir las convesaciones, así que ahora, además, puedo seguir los cursos de física impartidos por Walter Lewin en el MIT o escuchar las reflexiones sobre la existencia de Allan Watts en su puro inglés. En resumen, seguir tus pasiones puede ser la mejor y més encantadora herramienta para aprender una lengua extranjera.<br /><br />En Catalunya hemos hecho buenos progresos expandiendo nuestra lengua entre los recién llegados. Lo denominamos "inmersión linguística", una forma de aprender haciendo. Exactamnente igual que con la carpintería.<br /><br />Así que aquí me tienes. Si te puedo ayudar en algo no dudes en contactar conmigo, y com tu mismo escribías, no dejes que el miedo o la verguanza te impidan intentarlo.<br /><br />Con mis mejores deseos,<br /><br />--Óscar (ovr at zentinex.com)humanicnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5591297260116621731.post-91757417086965109592016-11-21T19:30:39.871+01:002016-11-21T19:30:39.871+01:00Hi Jeremy! All good tips. The Frau likes Duolingo,...Hi Jeremy! All good tips. The Frau likes Duolingo, I use Memrise. I think these programs are great for vocabulary training, but I think one will never gain fluency on a computer program alone. Great for what it is. I haven't seen the bot conversations, though. That sounds cool.<br /><br />The dialects are important. For example, every German program says "hello" in German is "Guten Tag." No one in Bavaria says that, they all say, "Grüß Gott!"<br /><br />BTW, the Frau says "hi," and wanted to remind you your invitation still stands.Brian Evehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04252174035715635674noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5591297260116621731.post-75469483660163319922016-11-21T19:21:01.695+01:002016-11-21T19:21:01.695+01:00Thanks, António! I'll definitely put that on m...Thanks, António! I'll definitely put that on my Christmas list. Any recommendations for Spanish language woodworking blogs?Brian Evehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04252174035715635674noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5591297260116621731.post-12555548029528356232016-11-21T19:08:26.305+01:002016-11-21T19:08:26.305+01:00Sorry for steeping in the middle.
The books from t...Sorry for steeping in the middle.<br />The books from this collection are my suggestion to get the basics around names and techniques. Once very popular in the peninsula, maybe you can find it in 2nd hand.<br />http://www.comercialpazos.com/bibliografia-videos-y-revistas/libros/trabajos-en-madera.html?___SID=UAntóniohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10596922451161589842noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5591297260116621731.post-91432330313773003612016-11-21T18:28:33.913+01:002016-11-21T18:28:33.913+01:00Not fluent in any language, but our family did/doe...Not fluent in any language, but our family did/does dabble heavily in a Spanish speaking Latin american community. I don't know that I have a lot to add, but here goes.<br /><br />First thing to suggest is the duolingo app. It's a great app with a great backstory too (https://www.ted.com/talks/luis_von_ahn_massive_scale_online_collaboration) I think they even have incorporated 'bots now for conversation development on the sly without actual people.<br /><br />Second I found trying to speak Spanish really made my English public speaking go up a few levels. Grasping for words and sentence structure in Spanish in front of others made giving a presentation in English seem like it was in slow motion matrix style adjustments. Not sure this helps, but language learning gives benefits to your native tongue too, so keep at it.<br /><br />Third it's good to talk to a Spanish person about dialects to help you understand what different cultures tend to do. For instance once I understood that it was the culture of certain areas to really run words together, it helped me better understand that someone didn't say one long word I didn't know, but was instead a string of words I knew 50% of.<br />Jeremyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17028867150859768771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5591297260116621731.post-32996088056711569242016-11-21T10:07:02.492+01:002016-11-21T10:07:02.492+01:00Wow! Thanks, Sylvain! I hadn't thought of wood...Wow! Thanks, Sylvain! I hadn't thought of woodworking books. A big benefit to that is it would give me some specialized woodworking vocabulary that I probably can't get from a Spanish teacher. <br /><br />It's hard not to be afraid to make mistakes. I just need to suck it up and drive on.Brian Evehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04252174035715635674noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5591297260116621731.post-45982261774048747202016-11-21T10:03:34.478+01:002016-11-21T10:03:34.478+01:00To your tool kit, you could add reading Spanish wo...To your tool kit, you could add reading Spanish woodworking books (or any other subject matter you are interested in). Reading basic woodworking books will help you with the sentence structure because you already know what it means. <br />It will not help in day to day conversation because of the specialised vocabulary.<br />Then of course info and documentary on Spanish TV. Generally, the info and documentary speakers make are selected for their language rigor and pronunciation and are easier to understand with school knowledge.<br />The most important thing is "don't be afraid to make mistakes".<br />Sylvain Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5591297260116621731.post-70376079835319127092016-11-21T07:56:57.957+01:002016-11-21T07:56:57.957+01:00Thanks! I will definitely check it out.Thanks! I will definitely check it out.Brian Evehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04252174035715635674noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5591297260116621731.post-36226761553635809472016-11-21T02:48:11.205+01:002016-11-21T02:48:11.205+01:00Check out Michel Thomas Method. I am doing his Fr...Check out Michel Thomas Method. I am doing his French lessons and am amazed how well I can use verbs and the tenses. I also did his intro one in German. He also has an impressive story. Fortunately, he's preserved on CD. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06229722182937867348noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5591297260116621731.post-76552577705636583372016-11-20T22:31:05.574+01:002016-11-20T22:31:05.574+01:00Thanks, Antonio! That's a great way to think o...Thanks, Antonio! That's a great way to think of it.<br /><br />I got my Venezuellian teacher saying Castilian because he thought it was weird saying Spanish Spanish to differentiate from South American Spanish.<br /><br />😁Brian Evehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04252174035715635674noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5591297260116621731.post-16996062712381922392016-11-20T22:25:10.829+01:002016-11-20T22:25:10.829+01:00Hi Brian...
Wordpress vs Blogger it sucks :(
Bein...Hi Brian...<br />Wordpress vs Blogger it sucks :(<br /><br />Being your "neighbour" in the peninsula I can say right away your teachers suck ... (LOL warning) because in some Spanish areas you'll get shot if you say Espanhol language... Castellano por favor LOL<br />We (in the Peninsula) have a few dialects a a few official languages and a LOT of the so call "false friends" (the same word that mean completely different things).<br /><br />Here's my personal language learning tip:<br />(although I have a British friend that say I have a very mid-atlantic almost English way of talking) ;)<br />When you change the language we also need to change the way we think 1-organizing the sentence 2-diferent languages/cultures different ways to transmitting ideas - like western saws vs continental bow saws vs Japanese saws need different ways to clamp wood you're cutting ;)<br /><br />Just my 2 cents, Good luck with your learnings!<br /><br />AntónioAntóniohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10596922451161589842noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5591297260116621731.post-56661633634108776632016-11-20T22:17:40.263+01:002016-11-20T22:17:40.263+01:00Hey, Matt!
Thanks for the comment!
I've deci...Hey, Matt!<br /><br />Thanks for the comment!<br /><br />I've decided that I'm not too old to learn Spanish, but I suspect there's something to that. Lucky thing I'm only 29!Brian Evehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04252174035715635674noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5591297260116621731.post-5628737204702438612016-11-20T22:01:36.883+01:002016-11-20T22:01:36.883+01:00A few years ago my company did a lot of work in Ju...A few years ago my company did a lot of work in Juarez, Mexico and in Alejuela, Costa Rica. I went down there many times for one week or two week stays. While the local engineers spoke English, most of the operators spoke only Spanish. I never took any Spanish in school, but I worked hard to speak Spanish based on what I'd picked up over many years. My problem was that I could speak well enough to be understood (though I'm sure my grammar was horrible!), but I couldn't understand what people were saying. By the time my mind translated the first word, the speaker was several words further into their sentence.<br /><br />Two things would have helped me. First, I needed a much better grounding in Spanish. I should have taken some base level classes, much like you've done. Second, I needed to be younger to pick up a new language. I know that you CAN teach an old dog new tricks, but languages are so much more easily picked up when you're young.<br /><br />Seems to me you're doing the right things: taking the classes and getting into a total immersion situation. And just like woodworking, you need to practice, practice, practice!Matt McGranehttp://tinyshopww.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5591297260116621731.post-44411399417046239222016-11-20T20:44:32.985+01:002016-11-20T20:44:32.985+01:00Hi Frederik!
Sorry that blogger isn't playing...Hi Frederik!<br /><br />Sorry that blogger isn't playing nice with you WordPress folks. If it makes you feel any better, I sometimes have trouble with WordPress blogs.<br /><br />Thanks for the input. This knotted feeling in your stomach when trying to speak is just something that I will have to get over. I think there is only one way to do it, and that is just to do it.<br /><br />I'll research this Birkenbihl method. Anything that works is a good idea!Brian Evehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04252174035715635674noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5591297260116621731.post-85921529842813434982016-11-20T20:41:49.107+01:002016-11-20T20:41:49.107+01:00Hi Brian,
I really tried hard to post a comment, ...Hi Brian,<br /><br />I really tried hard to post a comment, but for some reason blogspot doesn´t like worpress guys, so below you have my comment.<br />---<br />great post! Its that same fear that kept me from speaking English for a very long time, even though I grew up with it as my third language. I just didn't use it and started to worry about my tong getting all twisted up. At some point I was forced to speak in English again. The start was quit uphill, but then it started to come back and now I'm willing to speak English without my heart rate rising.<br />My kids are currently learning English and French by using the "Birkenbihl" method. They really are making great progress and are a good step ahead of students learning without this method. If I ever would set out to learn another language I would use this method.<br />http://www.learningstrategies.com/Birkenbihl.asp<br />http://www.birkenbihl-sprachen.com/products/german_a_trip_of_coincidences<br /><br />Best<br />FrederikBrian Evehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04252174035715635674noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5591297260116621731.post-46465379145910231612016-11-20T19:53:11.884+01:002016-11-20T19:53:11.884+01:00Thanks, Jonas. I'm not sure I believe you. Min...Thanks, Jonas. I'm not sure I believe you. Minnesotan and Canadian are pretty close, but the rest of us can't understand them. :)<br /><br />Good tip with the singing of songs. Although I was a professional musician, I'm rubbish at singing. And, I rarely listen to the lyrics, anyway. If I did do that, I bet you are right that it would help.Brian Evehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04252174035715635674noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5591297260116621731.post-78158186050391077852016-11-20T19:10:43.981+01:002016-11-20T19:10:43.981+01:00I like the omigodwhatthefuckdidhejustsay part :-)
...I like the omigodwhatthefuckdidhejustsay part :-)<br /><br />I think that Mariano has got a really good point in that people will try to help out by speaking English, and practise their own English at the same time. <br /><br />Besides I think that you are over selling my meagre language skills.<br />Danish, Swedish and Norwegian is so closely related that it would be similar to you being able to speak Montanan, Minnesotan and Canadian.<br /><br />There are two languages that I would really like to learn how to speak: Italian and Russian.<br />Italian because it is such a cool language, and I would love to be able to order spare parts for my Moto Guzzi on the original language.<br />Russian because the old Soviet national anthem is the most impressive national anthem out there, (The East German one is a close second) and I would like to be able to know what they are singing. <br /><br />I think that songs are one of the best ways to learn a language. If you have a translation of the text, then it is kind of easy, as long as you can read the words/letters. That is where the problems with Russian comes in.<br /><br />Have fun with learning Spainsh<br />Brgds<br />JonasJonas Jensenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07787393233185454227noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5591297260116621731.post-8782353360897166802016-11-20T18:23:45.156+01:002016-11-20T18:23:45.156+01:00Haha! Good plan! I wonder if I have the patience f...Haha! Good plan! I wonder if I have the patience for that? <br /><br />Thanks for being kind, but really, I was in Germany long enough to be fluent. It is embarrassing. But, you are right. There are good intentions. I find my German is much better when I find out you can't speak English. I'll find some way to make myself understood then.<br /><br />One big problem I've found with Spanish so far, is it seems all the words flow together where it sounds like one giant mumble. The Frau calls it "machine gun Spanish." My goal is to someday comprehend what is being said by the TV announcers for a Spanish football game. That is the ultimate test.Brian Evehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04252174035715635674noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5591297260116621731.post-82512790743062801492016-11-20T18:15:18.458+01:002016-11-20T18:15:18.458+01:00Let me quickly say thanks for providing this site ...Let me quickly say thanks for providing this site that I've been reading quietly for a while. <br /><br />I am German and I see that it is hard for an English speaker to practice German in Germany. Many Germans are somewhat fluent in English so they like to practice their English on you. And even with initially good intentions, when you start out in German and then struggle, Germans will automatically switch to English. To help you, but also to help themselves get better in English :)<br /><br />This shouldnt happen too frequently in Southern Europe. <br /><br />So here is my tip. Learn Spanish to some degree and when you come back try that and German, hide your English :)<br />Marianohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04576024486566426295noreply@blogger.com